Curse

synbios_kun · Oct 04, 2011, 12:57 PM // 12:57

How many of you make heavy use of shadow steps in PVE fights? I know I do.

One of my more fun builds involves:
1. Wastrel's Collapse
2-4. Jagged/Fox Fangs/Death Blossom
5. Death's Charge
6. Ebon Escape/Death's Retreat
7. Critical Agility
8. Utility skill, usually Asuran Scan

Prepare Critical Agility, approach, Wastrel's collapse on nearby target(usually potential nuker mob), lay down with death blossom combo until dead, death's charge to next opponent if finished, then use Ebon Escape/Death's Retreat if I notice a hero begin taking heavy damage, tap 'c', continue with combo.

Fun when Tahlkora and Xandra drop Strength of Honor and Splinter Weapon on me.

I'm sure there are better builds out there, but I miss being able to shadow step like a boss. EoTN and NF gave me those wonderful options.

Axel Zinfandel · Oct 04, 2011, 02:05 PM // 14:05

I've recently thought of using Ebon Escape to try and trigger Scorpion wire faster on back-line enemies. I've yet to test it out in actuality though. If so, I would find it fun to support a teammate/self and reliably KD an enemy at the same time.

I wish shadow steps had a lower recharge in PvE though.. they are so fun to use in battle.

synbios_kun · Oct 04, 2011, 02:16 PM // 14:16

My favorite part about Wastrel's collapse is that, unlike the rest of the shadow steps, knockdown actually gives me enough time to recover from the after-cast delay to land my combo in. 20 sec recharge is actually not much of an issue to me.

chullster · Oct 04, 2011, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Always thought shadow form should have been more like..

Shadow Form
5e 1/4 cast 30sec

Elite skill Shadowstep to target foe with no aftercast delay. If that foe dies within 15 secs SF is instantly recharged.

I want to play pve as an effin ninja!

Skyy High · Oct 04, 2011, 02:50 PM // 14:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by chullster

Always thought shadow form should have been more like..

Shadow Form
5e 1/4 cast 30sec

Elite skill Shadowstep to target foe with no aftercast delay. If that foe dies within 15 secs SF is instantly recharged.

I want to play pve as an effin ninja!

Um, yes, yes please.

chuckles79 · Oct 04, 2011, 06:46 PM // 18:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by chullster

Always thought shadow form should have been more like..

Shadow Form
5e 1/4 cast 30sec

Elite skill Shadowstep to target foe with no aftercast delay. If that foe dies within 15 secs SF is instantly recharged.

I want to play pve as an effin ninja!

You can't do that! If you do that, then the assassin would be doing exactly what it was meant to do!

Shadow Form
10e 1/4 cast 20s

Elite skill Shadowstep to target foe. You cannot be attacked or the target of spells for 2...7 seconds, or until you successfully land an attack.

This would still keep Fow Manlyspike going, but would require a better class of sin to pull it off.
Enough of the godmode crap.

Lanier · Oct 04, 2011, 07:17 PM // 19:17

Shadow Fang is really fun to use in assassin AP builds.

chullster · Oct 04, 2011, 08:52 PM // 20:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lanier

Shadow Fang is really fun to use in assassin AP builds.

I don't want to use any spell over 1/4 sec cast so AP is out.

I'm a ninja, not a wizard!

synbios_kun · Oct 05, 2011, 12:57 AM // 00:57

Does the Shadow Fang-applied Deep Wound kill if enemy is at a low enough health?

Xenomortis · Oct 05, 2011, 01:05 AM // 01:05

Deep Wound cannot kill someone on it's own; the health loss must first be triggered by a change in health (not regen/degen though). Shadow Fang doesn't do damage and so cannot kill.

Wastrel's Collapse is sometimes a little useful, but that tends not to outweigh gains from Way of the Assassin or even Moebius Strike.

synbios_kun · Oct 05, 2011, 02:21 AM // 02:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

Deep Wound cannot kill someone on it's own; the health loss must first be triggered by a change in health (not regen/degen though). Shadow Fang doesn't do damage and so cannot kill.

Wastrel's Collapse is sometimes a little useful, but that tends not to outweigh gains from Way of the Assassin or even Moebius Strike.

I will admit that WoTA is deadly useful, but in PVE, I already benefit from Critical Agility well enough that IMS is good enough for energy/crit management, while enemies die too fast for me(mmm, splinter/strength of honor) to capitalize on a moebius blossom loop.

Xenomortis · Oct 05, 2011, 08:55 AM // 08:55

The crit boost is more important than the IAS; crit rate drops dramatically when hitting higher level foes and having to auto-attack is less than ideal. Critical Agility is also a little clunky at times.

synbios_kun · Oct 05, 2011, 12:48 PM // 12:48

Fair enough. Question though: Would it be considered redundant to run WotA and CA at the same time?

Secondly, regarding the shadow-step-away skills like HoS and Viper's Defense - are they useful in the middle of PVE fights, aggro risks notwithstanding?

Xenomortis · Oct 05, 2011, 12:56 PM // 12:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by synbios_kun

Fair enough. Question though: Would it be considered redundant to run WotA and CA at the same time?

Secondly, regarding the shadow-step-away skills like HoS and Viper's Defense - are they useful in the middle of PVE fights, aggro risks notwithstanding?

I wouldn't advise running CA with WotA.
Defensive shadowsteps are of minimal use to a melee physical and almost certainly aren't worth the skill slot outside of very niche situations. Untargeted are even worse.

synbios_kun · Oct 05, 2011, 01:08 PM // 13:08

Hm, I see. How about switching out Ebon Escape/Death's Retreat for Critical Eye so I have this:

1. Wastrel's Collapse
2-4. Jagged/FF/DB
5. Death's Charge
6. Critical Eye
7. Critical Agility
8. Asuran Scan/utility

I'll probably alternate between WC and WotA depending on my mood and the needs of the mission.

Oh, I also noticed one interesting thing while I was doing the Snake Dance VQ - besides Shadow Walk, Wastrel's Collapse is a skill, meaning that Spell Breaker'd Griffons are still prone to it. Another reason why I now like Wastrel's Collapse.

(Yes, I just recently got Nightfall, so I'm enjoying the 'oooh shiny new thing' sensations that I've lost many many years ago.)

Kunder · Oct 05, 2011, 09:32 PM // 21:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

The crit boost is more important than the IAS; crit rate drops dramatically when hitting higher level foes and having to auto-attack is less than ideal. Critical Agility is also a little clunky at times.

Not really. Crit rate goes up on YOU, but your crit rate on enemies drops very little. I suspect it is more observational bias that people think their crit rate drops dramatically because against high armored enemies 4 damage -> 8 damage isn't noticeable as a crit, whereas 30 damage -> 60 damage is obviously a badass attack. IIRC, a lvl 31 enemy attacking you goes up something like 6% because of their level (they go up another 6% assuming they have r20 in their weapon instead of r16), while your crit rate changes by about half a percent.

I can dig up the crit formula if you like, but it will make your eyes bleed. Suffice to say that your crit rate is always at least as high as your weapon skill and the level-dependent factor is added on to that afterwords (and its ugly, trust me).

IAS is, of course, always amazing.

Xenomortis · Oct 05, 2011, 10:51 PM // 22:51

Eh, testing on a summoned Flesh Golem (level 29) gives a very similar crit rate to the barrels; I guess you're right.
The formula on Izzy's talk page is wrong, although Chthon estimated a correction to it: http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...8&postcount=21. I've never really looked at it before though.

Regardless, the crit rate a Sin has without WotA is low enough for pretty bumpy play.

synbios_kun · Oct 05, 2011, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Oh yeah, speaking of which - I've gotten some mixed replies about mod recommendations - some people swear by fortitude mods while others say that shelter/defense mods are better in the long run. Thoughts?

Xenomortis · Oct 05, 2011, 11:41 PM // 23:41

Defense if you're not using Critical Agility or it is at rank 5 or less (armour is better than health).
Fortitude if you are using Critical Agility above rank 5 (you will receive less armour due to how armour is calculated).

Ghost Dog · Oct 06, 2011, 12:41 AM // 00:41

When I think of shadow form, it should be a 30ish second enchant, shadow step to any attacked targeted foe during the duration, that way you can hop around the entire mob at super speed.

Thing is the combos recharge would make it worthless and the mobs all ball up anyway.